30:8 Niche till it works

Lee Matthew Jackson: Welcome to a conversation with me, it’s Mr. Lee Matthew Jackson and today we have on the show two wonderful people. We have Brad and Emily from Go WP guys. How are you doing?

Brad Morrison: Doing well Lee, thank you so much for having uss on the podcast.

Emily Hunkler: Yeah, doing great. Happy to be here.

Lee Matthew Jackson: It’s a pleasure guys. It’s always exciting trying to interview two people at the same time. So I’m looking forward to seeing how this goes. Folks, if you don’t know anything about Go WP, please go ahead and check them out. It’s gowp.com so that’s super easy to remember. Also if you want to follow what these guys are doing and get updates from them as well as learn from them because they creating some great content at the moment, go and check out their Facebook group. There’ll be a link in the show notes, but if you’re in Facebook right now, like me and just type in niche agency owners and you will see that at the top of the list there. That’s the Go WP niche agency owners Facebook group, a nice place to hang out. So with all of the housekeeping done, Brad, can we talk with you first? What we love to do is first of all, find out a little bit about yourself, your favourite colour or a few things like that. And then we’ll go to Emily and find out a few things about Emily and then we’ll jump in a time machine. You up for that?

Brad Morrison: Absolutely. Yeah, it sounds great. So, I’m Brad. I’m the chief happiness officer at Go WP and I am the founder. We, you know, we started I guess six years ago. I personally live in Atlanta, Georgia, just North of Atlanta in a town called Roswell with my wife. Roswell, Georgia.

Lee Matthew Jackson: Not the Roswell?

Brad Morrison: No, not, not the alien Roswell. Yeah, it’s easy to get confused, although, I mean, sometimes you wonder so, but yeah, it’s a quaint little town up about five, six miles North of the perimeter around Atlanta. I live with my wife and we have an eight year old daughter and a brand new puppy. So that has been a whole lot of fun. It’s been eight years since I had a kid, like a baby. Right? So it’s been a new experience getting back into that. My favourite colour is Carolina blue. I am a targale from the university of North Carolina. So anything light blue is a good colour for me.

Emily Hunkler: So, well I will Google Carolina blue and listen to Emily, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Emily Hunkler: I’m Emily. I also live North of Atlanta. Not in Roswell though and Woodstock and also not the Woodstock, so we just like the off brand famous famous towns, but it’s really close to where, where Brad’s located. Although we do work remotely mostly. Yes, so I started working with Go WP about, I guess we could say like almost a year and half ago, year and a quarter and it’s been great. I’ve really enjoyed it. I hadn’t worked in the WordPress ecosystem before, so it’s been, that’s been a whole adventure on its own. Before that I was living in Barcelona, actually working in the tech industry over there with some of the startups and working in marketing there. So I should say I guess with Go WP on the marketing director. So I do marketing and yeah, I’ve got two little girls, a three year old and a seven month old and yeah that’s me I guess favourite colour, I would say green.

Lee Matthew Jackson: Green. So does that mean you had some of the input and the Go WP website recently?

Emily Hunkler: I did, but green was already our established colour before that stuff.

Brad Morrison: She has taken us in a green direction though I will say, cause we, I used to use the darker blue a lot and she’s like, nope, shirts are now green. Everything’s green.

Lee Matthew Jackson: It really feels like this is more of a teal, but I guess it could be a green as well. I’m not a hundred percent sure. I’ve learned over the years of interviewing people and talking to designers, I’ve learned that I probably am colour blind.

Emily Hunkler: Yeah, I think it’s a teal for sure. But I would put within the spectrum of green, right?

Lee Matthew Jackson: Yeah. My wife would tell me blue. It gets very confusing. Anyway guys, what we love to do in this podcast is to jump in a time machine. It could be a Tardis or whatever technical device you personally use to time travel and Brad, I’d love to just start with you really and find out how you got into the industry altogether. Maybe it was through WordPress, maybe it was through drawing pictures on a piece of paper. I don’t mind how far you want to go back, but how did you get into the industry?

Brad Morrison: You may regret that cause I’m really old so I could go way back. So actually, you know, and I guess I will maybe 2002, 2003 and 2004, I was actually teaching school, I was a technology coordinator at a pre K to 12, a grade 12 school here in Georgia. I was in charge of the website. So that was one of my, along with teaching seven classes a day from pre K to 12th grade, I was already spending the afternoons fixing computers and, and working on the website. So I really enjoyed that process and so I started of course, like a lot of people in this space, started doing some work on the side. It really came from just contacts from the school. It’s like, Hey, well, you know, my wife or my husband owns a business. One of the teachers have a surf shop and it’s like, Oh, I can build a website for you and so I started doing that long ago, not WordPress at the time. At the time it was Joomla websites. It had just split from, Mambo. Yeah. So I think it was around 2003 or 2004 and so I built sites for just people I knew. Then that kind of evolved. We spent four or five years, I spent four or five years building Joomla websites. I ended up resigning from the school and doing this full time as I build up my client base. Then in 2009, I think it is when we made the switch to WordPress and it was probably around WordPress 2.8 WordPress three. Oh, it was in that time when custom post types came out and you started to realise, okay, WordPress is more than just a blogging platform. There’s a lot that we can do with this. It’s powerful. I mean, one of the things that held me back for so long, as strange as it is, as little as I have a non developer things like just quickly adding menu items and add a, you know, just little things where a lot harder to do in WordPress before then and so that made it a lot easier. We went all in on WordPress. I hired my first developer who is still with us today. He’s amazing, Lucas Carpio and so we’ve been working together now for 10 years. We basically built the agency. The agency was Sell Point Media. We built that in our it was really a local web design shop and so then after doing that for another five years, we had built it up to about 10 people, decent size, in a smaller city. We weren’t in Atlanta then we realised that we didn’t enjoy doing all of the things that you needed to do to be a comprehensive agency. We were good at some things, but we weren’t good at others but we were trying, right. We were trying to do design, well, we were trying to do copywriting and SEO and other billboards yeah. Marketing traditional marketing stuff.

Lee Matthew Jackson: So kind of like the full service agency approach?

Brad Morrison: Yeah. We were doing that. But again, you never liked to feel dishonest. You don’t wanna stand in front of a customer and say, Oh, we can do that when you like, Oh, how am I going to do that? And I could find myself in some of those situations. Like, I don’t, I’m not comfortable with this. We need to build a business around what we’re good at, what we enjoy doing and fortunately I had a development team that was really good at handling support, handling, troubleshooting. They didn’t enjoy the projects as much and so it was just a little bit odd and most would go the other way and say, Hey, you know, we like, we like doing the longer term projects and building things and I get it. But I think my team liked the being able to close something out quickly. Right? So like a puzzle, a lot of different puzzles that come at you. There’s a beginning, there’s an end and you move onto the next thing and at the end of the day, you know, more tickets are going to come through. But there is a beginning and an end and it can be, I think it can be a little bit freeing to have that perspective.

Brad Morrison: So that was 2014 we rebranded, we went all in on Go WP as a maintenance and support service three months later with the consultation of Troy Dean, Troy was a coach during that first year and he knew the agency marketplace really well, WordPress consultant and agency marketplace. So he was like, you gotta do this as white label. So I was like, okay, well we’ll give it a shot, we’ll try it out. Then we ended up going all in on that because it’s just, it’s just been so perfect for us. It’s been a good fit.

Lee Matthew Jackson: I’ve just found an email from 2015.

Brad Morrison: Oh yeah. No way. Between you and I?

Lee Matthew Jackson: Yeah.

Brad Morrison: No way, that’s awesome.

Lee Matthew Jackson: Oh mate, BFF’s for life here. I just thought, wait a minute. I am sure sure we spoken. That was it I was asking about multisite installs all the way back there. As we’ve got Event Engine and now I was thinking maybe we could have some support for Event Engine back then. I mean we’ve since kind of brought all of that in house, well a lot of that in house and then we’ve got a supplier that supports us. But yeah. Wow.

Brad Morrison: Multisite is always a challenge even today. Some of our biggest customers are multi-site, but we’re not doing maintenance for those. We are doing maintenance for some, we’ve found the best fit for multi-site is when each subsite is a different client and they have support subscriptions, mostly content edits, just things you can do in the admin panels. So, but yeah, multi-sites always been a bit of a challenge for most of the maintenance and support services.

Lee Matthew Jackson: Well that was the challenge for us. I mean it’s something that we’ve been able to work out over the years, but for us it was like one client with multiple websites and it was very different back then cause we’ve been doing the thing. Yeah, it’s just funny seeing that email from 2015 because you guys started, so like you said, your journey has been 2009 you’ve moved into the WordPress space. It was 3.0 I remember. It was the exact same for me was when I first started, I’d use WordPress actually for quite a long time, but for me, I got really serious with WordPress because we were able to build one of the very early versions of Event Engine that we use now on WordPress 3.0 and I was actually using the beta, well, I use the alpha to build it and then the beta and then obviously when it became stable, we launched that as our first version of Event Engine. We’d done a product called Your Show beforehand on WordPress, but that was not using it. So that was using custom tables and it was just a nightmare. It was just so complicated and we’d managed to roll it out and sell it to a few clients, et cetera. But then when post types came out, it just kinda changed my development life forever. I got a really early version of ACF as well. I was just like, Holy moly, this is like, this is heavenly. Then we kind of built up the business and about the same time as you are 2014/2015 I think was when you guys were launching with GoWP and I’ve just found that really, really early message. In fact you were sending very early messages even in 2016 encouraging people to come and try this one. Come and try first 10 free, the first people use the promo code. Blimey cause I mean you guys have come a long way mate.

Brad Morrison: We’ve come a long way and I don’t recommend that promotion cause it’s funny how they don’t stick around when it’s free.

Lee Matthew Jackson: Exactly. I think it was only for a month or something I don’t know, I haven’t actually read it but yeah, one month free. That’s not like free clients.

Brad Morrison: Yeah, we had some takers but a lot were like I did it for free and I got my tasks done. Now I’ll see you later.

Lee Matthew Jackson: Just double check mate that that code doesn’t still exist. Just in case before we release this podcast, you’re going to get a load of cheapskates.

Brad Morrison: I will do that. I will absolutely do that.

Lee Matthew Jackson: That’s hilarious. So, alright, so let’s just recap here cause this is cool and I love hearing how people have gone through a journey. But like you said, 2009 you go on Joomla to WordPress. That totally makes sense cause we’re getting really easy. Your building up a local agency, you’re serving the local community with websites, you’re finding that although you know it’s great to be able to build stuff, et cetera, you want to remain true to yourselves and actually you’re all enjoying being able to receive support tickets and have them closed within a few hours. It’s that kind of satisfaction of Hey I got that job done. Yes there’s more tickets to come in tomorrow. But right now I’ve seen the fruit of my actions, which is one of the frustrations for me as a developer because I ain’t going to see the result for months because a lot of our projects are super long term and I have to go home and cook a meal to so I can feel like I’ve achieved something. So you guys are thinking, right, let’s go all in on support. So you’re going all in on support is 2014/2015 that is pretty scary. How did he deal with that? What were the obvious fears that you were going to have when you were thinking, we’re just going to go all in on support and we’re going to drop everything else? How did you do that? What were the feelings?

Brad Morrison: Yeah, the, the transition is always tough because you go from taking a 10 to $20,000 project that okay that’s a sizeable payout, right? To taking very, these are low monthly price subscriptions. So we had a significant drop in revenue. But I could see that, I knew we already had a little bit of a safety net and because we offered hosting, right? So we offered hosting, reseller hosting, just reseller hosting, but we had a decent base. We also had, because we had a lot of, you know, most of our customers were just small, medium sized businesses. We had a good bit of quantity in those. So when we made the transition, we were able to say, Hey, we know you don’t like paying hourly. We know you don’t like hourly billing. You don’t like it when your attorney does it. You don’t like it when your accountant doesn’t, you don’t like it when your web developer does it. So on things like this, we can kind of reduce the friction. You just send us something, it’s a low monthly fee, let’s give it a try and so we encouraged a lot of our, just small business local customers to to give it a shot. We did an email campaign. So over the course of maybe two or three months, we would hit them up pretty regularly, let them know the kinds of things that we could include. Gave them a special offer to try it out. The first one, it was free til the end of the month. Then it was, you know, half price for, right. So we gave a different incentives to get them to convert over just to try it.We still have a lot of those customers today, that’s not our core business. Most of our customers now, everyone now that we bring in is an agency, but we still have some of those originals, you know, from our agency days that converted over. So that was helpful in the transition because you’re cutting when you stop cold Turkey with projects. And we did, we literally drew a line in the sand. We said, we’re not taking any more projects. We’ll finish up some, which gave us maybe six months of transition, but it was tough. We did, we did scale down a little bit. You know, again, we had 10 employees, well between full and part time employees and we dropped way back. So I think we were maybe at four for awhile. So fortunately we didn’t really, I don’t know that we had to really lay anyone off. It would just kind of worked itself out. Like, one employee was like, Hey, I want to start my own agency. So she started her own agency and one employee was like my visa is up, I’m moving back to my home country. I’m gonna build a business there doing design. So it just, it all kind of, everything worked itself out. It wasn’t as painful as it could have been, but it was fun to see it. It was steady, stable growth. Not like the hockey stick or anything like that. This is a service. We’re not building a product. It’s not the normal SAAS mechanics. It’s a little bit different than that. But I could see that, Hey, you know, we’re doing a little bit better every month, a little bit better every month. So you could see a lot of the business stress of you build a team of 10 people, you have to keep, you know, that feast or famine cycle. You’ve got to keep telling the beasts that you built that went away with this and that was a huge relief. We were able to sit back and say, okay, what do we want to be in a year? What do we want to be in two years? How do we want to do this very strategically. Some of the stress now has gone from having to go out and sell, sell, sell and bring on projects. So we were able to build a company the way that we wanted to. Lucas Carpiac, our first employee, he has been, he’s been a cofounder with go WP and absolutely amazing and instrumental in helping build this from a culture standpoint. But also Lucas is phenomenal at saying this scales to 20 people, this scales to 50 customers, this scales to a hundred, but when you get beyond a hundred, there’s going to be some problems from a technical standpoint here and so we were able, without the stress of projects, we were able to think all of that through, which was very cool.

Lee Matthew Jackson: That is awesome. So you are supporting local businesses at first in building that up. How soon was it when you had that conversation with Troy, did you decide to go ahead and ahead on white label? Was that pretty soon after?

Brad Morrison: Yeah. That three months after it was October of 2014.

Lee Matthew Jackson: Cool. So that was a transition from clients onto the new plan of some of whom you still supporting to this date because you’ve got a great relationship with them. But then quickly it was a case of moving across to white level, which you grew. Now, at what point did Emily join this journey?

Brad Morrison: Emily was hired, she came on I guess about year and a half ago. A little less than a year and a half ago. I’ll tell you like the need there as a, as a founder you wear a lot of hats, obviously we all do, right? Then you realise you’ve taken something as far as you can and there’s a need to bring someone else in that knows it a lot better than you. So we basically put a position out for a marketing coordinator. Emily was the best candidate for that job. Fortunately she accepted, so she came on board last I guess August, September, I think sometime in that time frame. Honestly, I can see just how much I neglected on the marketing side by having someone so strong as strong as Emily coming in and say, okay, well we’re going to be doing this now. So, but yeah. Emily, what would you add there?

Emily Hunkler: Yeah, well, I think when I first came on I was just really impressed that you were doing so much on the marketing side to be honest, because, you know, we had the blog going, there were all of these assets that existed. We had a great subscriber list, all of these like key marketing components that were there, but I didn’t, it wasn’t like building something up from zero at all. So that was fantastic. It was just like all of this potential, I guess. So that was something that was really exciting when I first interviewed and, and learned about the company a little bit.

Lee Matthew Jackson: Emily, I remember very early on in the intro that you said that you’d come from a marketing background and had had no real experience of the WordPress ecosystem. What were your early experiences when you joined Go WP and kind of got exposed to the industry?

Emily Hunkler: Well, where we are located in Atlanta is pretty unique. I think? Brad kind of let me know that from the get go because the WordPress community here is so strong and so active. I mean there is like a meetup every week you could go to within an hour’s drive or less, I would say Brad, right?

Brad Morrison: Yeah, I think there’s 14 individual WordPress meetups in the Metro area.

Emily Hunkler: And they’re popular. I mean there’s a lot of people at everyone you go to. So that is definitely unique and it’s awesome like jumping into that ecosystem here because I was able to attend meetups and get to know WordPress in parallel with getting to know Go WP and learning about the company and everything because they are so connected, you know, and the WordPress ecosystem is so important to us. So that was great. So I joined Go WP in September and WordCamp US last year was December 5th, so it was about three, I think it was like exactly three months after I started. So that was my first like WordPress event. I guess it wasn’t a meetup. So that was huge and that was, you know, kind of a like just jump in both feet. So it’s been great. Now we just, we’re just back at WordCamp US, which was last weekend now. And just seeing the difference in myself, being more comfortable with the community, knowing more people, just being friends with so many people now. So it’s been, it’s been an awesome year for that.

Lee Matthew Jackson: Yeah no, that phenomenal. Just on that, because I think the WordPress community is very unique compared to a lot of other industries and niches. Is there anything that kind of stands out to you on your experiences of our crazy WordPress community versus the marketing life that you kind of left as it were?

Emily Hunkler: Yeah, for sure. I mean working in startups and working in Barcelona, which was great. I mean I loved the companies I worked for there, but it’s, yeah, it’s much more kind of cut throat is, you know, a strong term I think. But that kind of feeling right, that vibe where it’s very competitive. You hold everything like real close to your chest. You don’t let other people know your stuff. There’s not this environment of sharing and that’s so much the case with WordPress. I love that about it. That you know, you, you can do these brainstorming with other people in marketing at WordCamp US, we had a meetup of all the people in marketing who wanted to come and it was, gosh, it was like 15 of us. There’s something maybe more I’ll just coming, sharing our experiences, what we’re working on, what results we’re seeing and that, that’s amazing. At my past jobs you never would have done that. I mean, you don’t share that kind of stuff I guess.

Lee Matthew Jackson: Exactly the same sort of experience in the events industry. It’s very uncommon for people to share, you know, cross share information at all. You keep your cards very close to your chest and everybody’s kind of guessing and it’s something that, you know, I guess it’s a testament to where pressed as well. The fact that me and Brad were, you know, messaging each of the all those years ago and we still kind of remained in touch with being aware of each other without necessarily having to talk to each other all the time. But that’s because everybody shares everything that everyone does within this community. Even though there are thousands of people, we kind of all hear of each other and we see each other knocking around, et cetera. You see everybody who could potentially be competitors just helping each other out or passing work amongst each other. So that was kind of a strange experience for me as well when I was in that. How has your kind of marketing changed based on that? You know, you’ve gone from cutthroat industry to a wonderful community of sharers. Has that changed any of your marketing strategies?

Emily Hunkler: It has a bit. I guess so great thing that working with Go WP is that it’s a small, we’re small, right? We’re a small team and a lot of times it’s Brad and I working on things together, bringing people in if needed that kind of thing. Before, you know, I worked at, they were much bigger teams so you know, I say there wasn’t sh there’s not sharing, but I mean there wasn’t even within the company. So it’s like sales isn’t talking to marketing, marketing wants sale, you know, that kind of environment. So it’s hard to get anything done. So with working at Go WP, it’s amazing how we’re just able to try something out. Let’s try this. Oh that works, let’s keep trying that, let’s keep doing it. Let’s keep getting it better. Let’s try this. Oh that didn’t work out the door, you know, and then just keep moving and rolling and doing all these things. Also because of the sharing and that kind of stuff, we’re seeing what other people are doing, what’s working for them. They’re being completely open about how they do it. They are writing blogs about it. They want to help others. So then we’re able to say, Hey, this worked for them. Why don’t we try that? That kind of thing as well, you know, and, and were able to actually sit and talk with those people too and be like, Hey, how did you get this? How’d you get this going? Like, we want to talk with you, let’s help you out also, how can we help you? And that whole kind of give and take that happens within WordPress. I love that.

Brad Morrison: Yeah. The one thing too, Emily has kind of taken the marketing a little bit, even stronger in a partnership approach. A lot of our content, it comes with a collaboration with other partners now instead of just, Hey, let’s find a good keyword and write a long blog post about that. It brings the wrong customer. We’re not doing that. But if we have these collaborations and you know, we’re doing a lot of webinars and a lot of the content comes from that and I think that’s been really strong. But yeah, you mentioned competition. I talked to our competitors regularly. We share things like it’s so refreshing to be able to talk to people that do the same type of work and feel the same type of stresses and we’re all growing together. So it’s a cool thing.

Lee Matthew Jackson: No, that is absolutely, well it’s phenomenal. It’s been something that I’ve certainly struggled to get used to at the, at the very beginning, because of my own experience in the events industry. So I was definitely interested in hearing what Emily’s experiences were and it’s refreshing to be open. It’s refreshing that we can test, iterate and also share and also learn from others. So we’re learning from the mistakes of others. Now, WordPress being such an amazing community. Emily, I saw that you were involved recently in WP&UP. Can you tell us a little bit about what that was about and what the mission for go WP is with supporting WP & UP?

Emily Hunkler: Absolutely. They are doing really great work, really important work. I’m not sure when it started, but they’ve really been trying to, they’re working on a campaign right now, really trying to up their donations and all of that. So we were really happy to get involved with that and help them out. They provide kind of mental health services and tools for people in WordPress and it’s not just, you know, therapy sessions. They do help with skills because in the end, you know, t’s your work that has a big impact on, on your mental health. So they have these different hubs that they’re able to help people out with completely of cost because of the donations. So what we did, it started with, I think it started between a conversation between Brad and Alex, if I’m not mistaken. Then Brad kind of pass it off off to me and we were able to put together a panel discussion on mental health in agency life kind of thing. So agency owners working remote, it can be super isolating. That was the kind of topic and we had a panel discussion with Alex and Dan Maby and Piccia Neri and Nathan Wrigley and it was great. We had such a great reception of it. People loved it. Really high engagement. Everybody that was in the live recording was asking questions, giving comments. I think it was really valuable for what it was.

Lee Matthew Jackson: And folks remember you can find that in niche agency owners. There’s a link inside of the Facebook group. There’s a replay in there that you can watch and enjoy. Now I do love what WP & Up are doing because they’re making people talk, not making by helping people talk sorry. You know, about what’s going on in the inside. Very much inspired by people who have had mental health issues in the past and what Dan is doing is absolutely phenomenal. I like that they are trying to help agency owners learn how to run better businesses as well that are not going to harm you. I think one of the things that I struggled with many years ago was I was in a business that was absolutely harming my mental health and my marriage and everything. One of the things I did and one of the reasons why I love your Facebook group title is I niched down and that really worked for me. You guys obviously niched down into support but then you kind of niched within the niche to only support agency owners and that obviously has been very successful for your business. Brad, we were speaking earlier on about people who niche and this is a conversation we have very often inside of agency trailblazer Facebook group and there’s often pushback about niching down. I know it works. I’ve done it twice. You know, it works as well. You’ve done it twice. But could you encourage people who are listening, especially those who are worried about niching down because they feel like they are going to leave potential projects on the table as it were. So that’s one of the push-backs against niching. I might miss out on some other work. Can you just share with us your experience of niching and why nourishing is important for an agency owner and we’ll help them build that business that ain’t gonna, you know, stress them out.

Brad Morrison: Absolutely. Yeah. I am a big, big believer in this. We have seen it a couple of different times in the past. I mean, just from standing back and looking at it, you develop expertise and authority in the niche that you’re serving. You get to know it even better. You usually start with something that you already know. So in our case, we had been an agency. We knew the pain points of being an agency. So we were able to jump in and say, you know what, we do white label maintenance and support for agencies because we’ve been there and we felt that pain and we found a resolution. We found a way out, the way to get to where we were going, or wanting to go. But maybe the most powerful thing I can say about it is if you take, you know, we, we’ve built up to quite a few customers and if you take our entire customer base and you look at the ones who are constantly adding new sites, that if you take the top 20 and say, these are the customers that are paying us the most, okay, these are the ones that have found that they have a lot of subscriptions with us. They’re growing, they’ve got significant recurring revenue. I would put that at 90 to 95% of that top 20 are niche businesses. They work with chiropractors, the funeral industry, plastic surgeons, dentists, attorneys and nonprofits, specific nonprofits, ones with a certain cause. So it’s undeniable when you look at that. So I talk about that when we have our initial discovery calls. Honestly it’s all, I don’t want to say it’s a red flag, but I see that we’re going to need to help this new agency customer that signs up with us if they’re not serving a specific niche. We’re gonna need to give them additional resources to help get them there and I love communities like your Lee where you’re, you are constantly talking about that and how important it is. I think it is extremely powerful. I would encourage every agency to niche down.

Lee Matthew Jackson: A hundred percent folks remember as well that Facebook group, I’d really encourage you to go ahead and join that. It’s niche agency owners. There’ll be a link in the show notes. Just to add as well folks to the idea of niching. If you are an agency that serves everybody, I’ve always found you served no one. But the minute you can say, right, I’m going to stick my stake in the ground and I’m going to look after these people I’ve got experience with looking after these people. I know there pain points, I know what they’re struggling with and I know that I can really help them. You suddenly become a very visible person in a much smaller pond and it actually gives you an edge. And if you, if there’s anything you can learn from the guys that Go WP then go ahead and join that Facebook group too as well. See what you can do with regards to supporting a WP & Up as well and their mission. I think that’s really, really important. Folks, create happiness is your motto. How do you go about creating happiness every single day?

Brad Morrison: So we view it as creating happiness through exceptional WordPress trust support. So we want to take the customer who, the end client and agencies client that is not happy with the situation they’re in because something’s not working right or they can’t figure out how to add something to the, and we turned that around and we give them a happy experience where they say, wow, everything’s good. This is exactly what I wanted. So that’s, that’s how we do it every day. But we try to do it through partnerships. We tried to do it through every conversation, whether it’s email, verbal, and just let people know that we’re happy to help. We’re here for you and we want everyone to be happy.

Lee Matthew Jackson: Mate that makes me feel happy. What I’d really love to do at some point, cause we are coming into land now, we’ve learned a lot about Go WP about your journey, which has been phenomenal and the importance of niching. But I think what I’d love to do maybe in an up and coming podcast or maybe not a live stream is really do some deep dive together on that whole aspect of niching because we’ve literally only scratched the surface. I’d love to get some more of your insight for all of our communities on that idea of niching. So hopefully you’d be interested in coming back on and maybe doing a live stream with me in the near future.

Brad Morrison: We would absolutely love that. Yes.

Lee Matthew Jackson: Fantastic. All right folks. Well you can find out more information about the white labelling aspect atgowp.com if you would like to take some of that burden off of yourselves. If you are thinking of learning how to sell support packages, then you can find out some more information on that with a free ebook that is offered by Go WP and I know you can find that in the Facebook group cause I’m in there. So go ahead and check that out. Links are all in the show notes so that all that is left for me to say folks is thank you so much for your time and we will see you in the Facebook group.

Emily Hunkler: Thank you Lee it was great.

Brad Morrison: Thank you Lee. Yeah, really appreciate this. Thank you.

Lee Matthew Jackson: Cheerio guys.