51:2 Can automation prevent burnout?

Lee
Welcome to the Trailblazer FM podcast. This is your host, Lee. And on today's show, we have the one, the only, it's Cat Burchmore. How are you today, Cat?

Cat Burchmore
I'm very well, thank you. So, so excited to be here. How are you?

Lee
Oh, I'm loving having you here. The last time we had a collaboration was when you were on our stage at ATL 2022. So it's lovely to virtually have you on our digital stage here on the podcast. So thank you so I appreciate you, for coming on. I reached out to you because this topic is quite close to my heart. If anyone's on our email list, they'll know that I struggled last year with burnout. From about September onwards, I just went on a horrific downward spiral I kept pushing myself through work until about December and my business partner, I broke down and my business partner was just like, take December off. So I did. And then I've been slowly coming back into the business and the podcast has finally We dropped an episode a few days ago, which people are pleased about. So that's all good. That's my self-story. But I wanted to reach out to you because you've started a summit all around automation, and I'd love to just pummelled you with a few questions selfishly for me. But also I know that folks who are listening, us web designers, us, web developers, are very susceptible to burning out working long hours.

Lee
Let's jump in and talk about automation. How could automation help me and agency owners like myself avoid burnout.

Cat Burchmore
I love that. That's actually one of the main reasons I use automation as well is to absolutely prevent that burnout. I'm living with health conditions that means that I can't do all the things. I can't live in that hustle world that a lot of businesses we, I guess, encouraged to do. That's what I love about automation. There's loads of different things that you can automate that then will help prevent burnout in the future? And I guess it depends on the specific things that would work for you and your business. But obviously, there's lots of different things available depending on, I would say, what were the main things that you found hard or that were becoming too much, if that makes sense? Was there one specific thing that triggered it?

Lee
Well, for me, it was... I mean, some of it would have been the organisational structure as well, where when we had to come to me to check on things, etc. We had documentation that people would follow, but there was always a lack of confidence that they'd done everything right and they wanted me just to have a quick look at it or have a double check or get involved. I'm a yes guy when it comes to my team, and not anymore, but have been. That was a massive part of my burnout. But in regards to some of the things that were happening, simple stuff like data import was one of them, bug checking, updates for websites, checking those updates, communicating with clients, remembering to renew contracts, remembering to check in with clients to maintain those relationships. There's all sorts of different random sporadic areas that were all on my plate. I was constantly trying to divvy out to someone, Could you just look after this client? Could you give them a call and make sure they're okay? Oh, crap. I've not invoiced for... Just a horrific even though I actually have like 40 documents that tell us how we run our business.

Cat Burchmore
So I would say

Lee
But none of that is automated, obviously.

Cat Burchmore
Like pretty much everything you've said could be automated 100%. And by putting those automated processes in place, it would make your life a lot easier. And I would almost say things like even setting up some of those automations so that certain things only happen during certain times can be really useful. I find that as well. I have certain things automated in the sense of when I'm reminded to do things, because obviously there are still things that we manually need to do in the business. Even being reminded to do something, but within a time that you know you're actually going to be available to do it rather than being reminded at 10:00 at night because that's when the client paid the invoice thing. It's set up so that it reminds me during working hours the next day rather than right when it happens. Things like that can really, really help. Any All kinds of different automation can definitely help prevent this. I think as business owners, we're very much trying to do all the things. This is where putting some automation in place so that we're not having to do all of the things.

Cat Burchmore
Even when you've got a team, as you just said, you're still trying to almost do everything, even with a team. I think just having those systems in place that are then automated can make such a big difference for sure.

Lee
Have you got a few examples in your own day to day of some automation that you lean on?

Cat Burchmore
Yeah, I mean, a lot of the stuff that we do is, or that I use a lot of is on the marketing side of things. Because that's my area of expertise. So obviously that's what I've spent a lot of time building out and everything. Anything from even just batching and scheduling social media to having an automated lead thing, all in lead generation, everything all set in place for people to then get everything and nurturing sequence for them to then book a call, all of that good stuff. But yes, on the back end as well, things like when invoices are paid, when I then get a notification to then follow up with clients. Client onboarding is actually a really big one. I'm currently in the process of tightening our own automations around that up. But I think that's a really big one because I know that that can have such a big impact on a new client and also on us as a business. I've often ended up doing bits of that manually when actually a lot of that can be automated and just save everybody a lot of time and actually give everybody a better experience.

Cat Burchmore
I think for me, that's a big part of it is not just being able to save time, but actually have another good goal about it as well. For client onboarding, the fact that the client then gets a better experience as well is really good.

Lee
Well, off the back of that, I think I've got a really good example of somewhere where automation has really worked and we actually did it. It's probably one of the only things we've really automated, and we did this a very long time ago. We use a product called HelpScout, which is a help desk system. We've got clients all around the world, we've got websites all around the world, and tickets come in regularly. What we were finding was a ticket would come in, we weren't sure who was going to own it, someone would open it and reply, but then the ticket would go out of date. Maybe two or three days later, the client hasn't replied or it's just gone stagnant and no one's owning We were finding that was bad because issues weren't being resolved over several days. What we did was we built in automation into that system where it would detect whether or not any activity had happened on that ticket at all in 24 hours. If it hadn't, it would escalate it to me and Tim were the owners of the business. We would both receive a notification that there was now a stagnant, I think we called it stagnant ticket, nothing was happening, which allowed us to either then go and jump into the ticket and reply or at least go and assign it to somebody to say and give them a shout saying, Hey, look at this ticket.

Lee
It's a little bit out of date. What's happening on here, et cetera. Since we did that, and we actually implemented that, I know, three years ago, I think, and then did no other automation since. I don't know why. But that's been the most successful thing we've ever done because over the last three years, whenever we close a ticket, Help Scout sends a message to our clients to say, What was your experience? Was it good, neutral, or bad? We have, over the In three years, a 100% good rate because we reply quickly. Somebody always owns it. We've got automation for who owns what as well. Depending on categories that are selected, then that's going to be sent to a particular person. All of that's all inbuilt into the system so that we don't have to worry about it. If something in the rare circumstance gets missed, Tim and I are aware of it within 24 hours and we can jump in and just say, Guys, what's happening here? There we go. I don't know why I've not done more, really.

Cat Burchmore
I Love that.

Lee
That's the question. Why do you think we don't do more?

Cat Burchmore
I think because the problem is it takes time to set up automation.

Lee
Oh, it took ages

Cat Burchmore
And I think that's what puts a lot of people off because it does take time. We're very focused on the immediate cost to us. The immediate cost of time seems worse to us than the future cost, even though actually the future cost is worse because that's what causes the burnout, all of that a thing. It's to put the time in now so that you can save the time in the future. It's not just time, it's money as well. Sometimes setting up these automations costs money as well in terms of purchasing tools or spending more on tools or all of that a thing. But it's the But again, I'm a great believer in investing in the tools that make your business run smoother and that help you grow and make more money. I think actually being prepared to invest in things like that because in the long term, you will reap the rewards and always see it's always worth it, I find. And if it's not, then you just change to something else. Everything's a lesson, right?

Lee
I am really conscious, actually, when you said that, of how many times I have made the decision to do something now and not document it or not automate it. And I even did it today. We're launching a new product in Event Engine. It's going to be out in a few weeks time. I need to record a demonstration of it. And we've just done a fresh instal of this product just to make sure everything works. And during the whole process, I kept thinking, I really should document this, even just record my screen of what I'm doing. But that's just a distraction. I need to crack on. And I did. I've rebuilt the whole thing in one hour because it's really quick and it gets me set up for tomorrow so I can do a demo. I know this isn't necessarily automation, although had I have documented now, that's then something that we can go, Okay, what from this can we now automate? What can we make quicker.

Cat Burchmore
Yeah. Even if you don't actually set up the automation when you do it, if you record your screen when you're doing it and then hand it over to a team member or you come back and do it later, and then it can be automated. So even if you don't automate it the first time you do it, if you're at least documenting it, then you can do it. I think sometimes you don't necessarily need to fall into the trap of automating everything the first time you do things because sometimes it might not be something you repeat anyway, and that can be wasted time. I do think it's worth definitely What's the word I'm looking for? Like, auditing what you actually do and thinking about, okay, what are the things we do more than twice, more than three times? They're the things we need to automate.

Lee
And then when we do automate, make sure that we're not automating bad practises, but streamline it where we can, etc, and make sure that everything works. So you're totally right. Don't automate it for the sake of it because it might not be right. So do it a few times manually first. When you're happy with the process, that's where the automation can come in.

Cat Burchmore
Another thing I was just going to say, another thing that I think can be really nice to automate as well. I think sometimes to counterbalance this burnout in the sense of to help you feel a bit more positive is I like automating, telling myself when we've made a sale. I'm not having to check my emails. I'm just getting a notification, maybe it's on what I've set it up in the past to be on WhatsApp and on other different things where I get notified that somebody's signed a proposal, signed a contract, paid their invoice, whatever it might be, dependent on what you're selling, obviously. Then you get to celebrate that and stay in that positive frame of mind.

Lee
Without opening your email and seeing the bills are also coming in.

Cat Burchmore
Exactly. Without opening. I hate my inbox. I hate emails. Me too. It just makes me feel really overwhelmed. Just being able to sort all of that out. That's another thing you can automate is your inbox. I use Google for everything and use G Suite, and I just have everything organised into different labels and make sure things get filtered automatically so that when they're from certain things, certain people, sorry, certain things happen that need to happen. Even a case for people who maybe aren't at the level of having a support desk set up, like you mentioned, although I think there are some very well low priced things, so I think you can even with a team of like, Well, it's not expensive. But even just having the automated email from the support email inbox, wherever they get email, just having that automated reply go out to say, right, we've received your email. We'll get back to you as soon as possible. And then notifying-Yeah, set some expectations in there. Yeah, and then notifying that person, Oh, you've had a new support. But notifying them, not straight away when it's working hours. They get the notification at 8:00 AM the next day or 9:00 AM the next day, not at midnight when the email comes in.

Lee
On that then, obviously, that's an automated message. One of the worries when it comes to, say, client communication, specifically, is that automation may make things feel a little more impersonal. Any insights into that?

Cat Burchmore
Yeah, definitely. And I think I love talking about that because I think that's something that a lot of people worry about. And it was definitely something I worried about, actually, as well. Even though I love automation, I'm a very personable person, and that relationship is really important to me. So I think it depends, obviously, on just to say, obviously, this all depends on the tech that you're using and all of that thing and what you're automating 100%. But there's definitely ways to make it feel more personal in the sense of using things like conditional content and making sure that there are certain things in there where you're specifically talking to the use case of the person that you're talking to. If you're thinking of automated emails, all of that a thing. But the other thing as well is, automation doesn't have to be the one that manually does the thing. It could just be the thing that reminds you to do the thing. Even that can help or it to the right person to do the thing. You can still have that manual side of things, but automation makes sure that it gets done. It reminds you of it.

Cat Burchmore
It sends you a thing to say, Can check this checkbox when it's done, and then something else. That then triggers something else happening. I think so there's loads of different ways to keep it personalised. I love things like even when you're doing things like client, I can't think of the word off the top of my head, when you're sending out gifts and things like that to clients, maybe it's their birthday or maybe you've got a really good client that's been with you for a long time and maybe you send them a gift every year or something like that. All of that can be automated and actually clients love that and it feels really personal, even though the whole thing is automated.

Lee
I get a card every year from a local graphic designer here, Piksuma. I'll put a link in the description. Great guy. His name is Mark. His name is not Piksuma. I get a happy birthday to my business card and I have been getting one from him for 10 years. And I know it's automated, but I love getting it every single time because it reminds me how old my own company is because I have no clue. I think I'm about 13 or 14 years old, but I wait for Mark's card to come so I know.

Cat Burchmore
Also, it's just really nice. I think GIFs, it's definitely something we... There's so much that you can automate, and there's so many things that you want to do in your business. And that's one of the things I really want to implement in our business is some form of... Something to help the client experience. As I said at the beginning, client experience is such a big thing for me. I actually think for a lot of people, they worry about implementing automation in the client experience because they're worried about the personalization side of things and how it can feel impersonal and it can feel automated. But actually putting them in often gives the client a better experience and makes it feel more personalised. And that's what I love about it. And that's definitely an area, as I say, I've always focused on my own business in the past, a lot on the marketing side of things. But actually the client experience is what I'm now currently trying to focus on this year in my We've done it with clients of ours and help them do things like that, but we've never done it in our own. So that's what we're in the middle of setting up as well.

Lee
Well, now that we're talking about this, my brain is going wild here because I can think, all right, another way of introducing personalization might be that I'll do the following. I will train an AI bot. I will feed it information about each client, especially that's very, very personal. Maybe this particular client likes playing golf or whatever, whatever, whatever, and I feed that into AI. And then part of my automation process might be creating a much more personalised with AI that comes to me first for me to check it before it gets sent. I'm the one who edits and manually presses send, but at least I can get something that's slightly more personalised. It might just be the monthly report, but AI might say, based on the time of year, cricket season starts, if they're into cricket or whatever. So, yeah, my brain has gone a little crazy. And that's probably another danger, isn't it? I'm illustrating here is that you can go way off.

Cat Burchmore
Yeah, definitely. And you can go down I mean, as we all can, right? For everything, especially when you're an ideas person, you just can go off on these little tangents. So it's making sure you think about what are the things that are going to have the most impact. I think that's always the thing to start with. So that's why for me, I started with the marketing side of things, and now I'm moving on to the client experience side of things. I think that's quite a good way to think of it, because on the marketing side of things, once you've automated that, that frees up your time to then focus on the client experience. You can do that manually while you set up the automations for the client experience, then it works really well like that, I think.

Lee
That's awesome. I think my biggest lesson here right now is that, or biggest lessons from this so far are, number one, just look at what you're doing, what can be automated. Step two from that, there are different ranges of automation. There's just automations like reminders to make sure that things get done at specific times. And there are actual automations that can happen like triggering emails or doing anything like that. Another lesson would be don't go crazy like we just illustrated. And of course, we still can personalise things, but don't go crazy, don't go too far and try and automate absolutely everything. And only automate processes as well. My final takeaway from this so far has been only automate those processes that are working and not automating bad practises, etc. Now, speaking of all of this, there are people listening who are right at the very beginning of their automation journey. Sounds cheesy, I know. And there are people that do probably automate everything. And the great news is you have a summit coming up called the Business Automation Summit. So please, could you tell us a little bit about what we can expect?

Cat Burchmore
Absolutely. I'm so excited. I have been buzzing for this since the beginning of the year when I started planning it all. It's just going to be so much fun. So it's happening on the 20th and the 21st of March, and it's just going to be absolutely phenomenal. So I've gathered a real big of speakers from all over the world. It's virtual, it's all happening online, and they're going to be speaking on so many different topics to do with automation. Some of the things, they're all experts in different areas of automation, and they can really, I think, bring something different to the table for everybody, no matter, as you said, where they are in their automation journey. We have more in-depth things like conditional content, like we were talking about earlier, when you're putting conditional content into your emails. We have someone talking about that. But then we also have somebody talking about just how to automate your life so that you can get that work-life balance a lot better. There's a real range of different types of topics dependent on your experience for sure. I'm just really excited about it.

Lee
Of course, I've seen a lot of the planning because I'm in a mastermind. Well, I'm also in a group chat that you're involved in and we're also friends. I've been seeing a lot of what's been going on. What you mentioned earlier, start with the marketing and then move on into things like the client onboarding and that you've got all of that covered from what I can see, which is super exciting. Do you think, again, on a selfish level, are there any talks I should be aware of that you think might help me with avoiding burnout in the future?

Cat Burchmore
We do think, Samantha Hearn's one that she's doing on that balancing, getting that work-life balance, that's probably one of the... I think that's one of the ones I'm most looking forward to. Well, I mean, actually, to be fair, I'm looking forward to all of them, I'm not going to lie. But that's definitely one that I think is... That everybody can benefit from that, no matter where you are. The way that she manages her business and her family life is so inspiring. I think literally everybody could gain something from what she's got to say for sure.

Lee
I love Samantha. I'm someone who hits I'm a repeat offender when it comes to mental health and burnout. When I first ever met her, I was just feeling so low. We were at an event, Chris Ducker's event, actually, Youpreneur Summit, about six or seven years ago. I just turned to her and she was like, Hey, how are you? I was like, Not great. She was like, That's amazing that you said that. Let's have a conversation. She was so positive. Then she ended up coming to speak at my event, which was great. She is definitely one of those people that I am really excited because she She's got a very busy life, but she does. She always remains positive and energised. I follow her on Instagram. I'm in her little broadcast group and she's showing up all the time. I'm really looking forward, specifically to her talk.

Cat Burchmore
She's really great at setting boundaries as well. She just manages her time in a way that I just think is really inspiring. It looks like she's everywhere and doing all the things, but she's actually very intentional about what she spends her time doing and when, and is very clear with her boundaries. I'm very much looking forward to everybody getting a look into her world and her sharing all of her amazing secret sauce with us all.

Lee
Well, as we come into land, what's the best way for people to get involved? And then we shall say, Adieu.

Cat Burchmore
Obviously, you can register for the summit. I'm sure you're going to be sharing the link for that, Lee, that will be very good. Register, come along, show up live. All the speakers are actually there live. It's not one of those summits that is all pre-recorded. We're all there live, so you get to actually ask people questions at the end as well. All the speakers are aware that they're not just sharing their area of expertise, their topic, their talk as such, but they are there to answer your questions too. Then there is an option to take advantage of a VIP upgrade that we've got afterwards as well, which I am so excited about because it includes an extra third day for VIPs only where we've got a panel session with other businesses. We've got additional pre-recorded sessions on some more topics there, some more detailed topics there, as well as all the recordings and all of that good stuff. Just in case you can't make it to the actual live sessions, then getting the VIP upgrade would be really great because then you'll be able to have all the recordings, just all the good stuff, so that you can take advantage of that in your own time as well.

Lee
That's fantastic. So folks, there will be links in the description. There'll be two links. There'll be a non-affiliate link and there will be an affiliate link to allow me to pay for those really nice lights that are behind me if you're watching on YouTube. So thank you, folks. Cat, thank you so much for your time. Again, I'm really, really excited for your event. Thank you for putting something like this on for the beginners and for the experts. So thank you. And I look forward to seeing how it goes. And we'll have you back maybe post-event to let us know how Running an Online Summit was and what your biggest lessons were. That would be a fantastic episode, I think.

Lee
I would love that.

Lee
I know you've got a lot of work ahead of you. So thank you. Have a great day and we'll speak to you real soon.

Cat Burchmore
Cheers.

Lee
Bye.

Cat Burchmore
Bye